12.25.2014

mike russo fb thread - 12-19-2014 - sewage treatment plants and the moving bed bioreactor system




Mike Russo -

December 19 at 3:00pm

Sewage Treatment Plants and the Moving Bed BioReactor System

All other issues aside in this sewer fiasco, can we devote some space to talk just about treatment facilities and MBBR, which Dave Clouser proposed he would recommend if a plant was situated on the Barry property?

From what I read on the web, MBBR sounds like a highly regarded system but I have no basis of knowledge to draw any conclusion. Can anyone with knowledge or experience comment on MBBR and whether it would adequately contain odors and harmful substances, such that its impact on the High School would be negligible, as I think Dave C. was representing last night?

And besides those two chronic problems typical of treatment plants, what about the acceptable risks aspect? Are there catastrophic possibilities not just with MBBR but with pipes and holding tanks and leach fields and runoff that are within worrisome probabilities that could affect the High School population? Dave C. related information from a plant operator of a system in Middleburgh located right next to a ball field that was problem-free for 22 years, but this morning Steve posted a photo reminder that Middleburgh was one of the upstate towns that were devastated by Hurricane Irene flooding. So how did that and other treatment plants and adjoining properties fare due to those floods? Is there any reason to think that MBBS does a better job of containment in flood circumstances.  Tim Rogers mentioned in his public comment last night that Dominick Profaci has expertise in this area. Nick -- can you comment?

   Dominick Profaci OK, let's see what I can do here. The MBBR is a package plant activated sludge system. The moving bed description refers to plastic media that is contained in the liquid column of the activated sludge to allow for more surface area for biomass to grow on to help with the treatment of the waste. Air is diffused into the water column of the activated sludge, as it is needed by both the suspended and attached bomass in their conversion of the waste.

   Mike Russo Nick -- is the MBBR system used for primary waste or is it typically a secondary stage treatment?

   Dominick Profaci  These systems can function very well for their purpose; but just like any other activated ludge systems can generate odors and volatilize potentially unhealthy organisms to the surrounding area. I can tell you first hand, as a past treatment plant operator and troubleshooter, that I always got colds/flus after visting waste water plants. When you are in them regularly, your immune systems actually get stronger, but if not working in the process every day, it is very easy to get sick - especially if your immune systems aren't at 100%

   Dominick Profaci  Odors from any waste water facility can come from hydrogen sulfide (rotten eggs), mercaptans (rotten cabage), or a myriad of other volatile organic and inorganic compounds. Most of these, even after diluted by the surrounding air, are highly perceptible by the human nose. They have extremley low odor sensory thresholds and can carry for long distances. At best these odors are obnoxios and sometimes they can cause nausea. These come from both the liquid waste water as well as the sludges that are produced from the process.

   Mike Russo  So although MBBR uses ultraviolet light instead of chlorine as a disinfecting agent, there still would be safety issues simply because waste matter and sewage is being processed?

   Dominick Profaci  Another real concern with package plants are their limited abilility to deal with potentially highly varying flows. When they are designed, they are designed based on a flow peaking factor - utilizing assumed average daily flows. What can be problematic is when these newly designed facilities are tied into an aged collection system. Most of these older collection systems are no longer water tight. They are prone to inflow (water from the surface) and infiltration (water from the ground). During heavy rainfall events, flows can increase dramatically and easily overwhelm a small package facility that is not designed to deal with "combined sewers." This can lead to only partiallly treated - non permit compliant - waste water being discharged to the receiving stream and/or overflow of the various tankage at the plant site. Another, potentially hazardous situation.

   Mike Russo Also, in such a compact plant design, although I understand where the fully processed waste water would go, I don't under what happens to the fully processed sludge. Is that simply put into the ground?

   Dominick Profaci  Mike to answer some of your questions, with small package plants like these, they typically treat all the influent flows, minus some screening to remove very large solids, through the one system. There isn't primary segregated from seconday treatment. As for health and safety, yes, although the chemical hazards may be reduced by not using strong oxidizers, like chlorine, to disnfect the effluent waste water; the bio-hazards would still exist. And as for the sludge, I have seen systems where they use dissolved air floatation to thicken the sludge and others where they use gravity thickening. I don't know what is envisioned here. I also don't know what the plan is to treat that sludge - another bio-hazard. They could either treat on-site - too many options to list here - or store it and have it trucked to a larger waste water facility that accepts other facility sludges for treatment. In any case, there will be odors and potential hazards.

   Dominick Profaci By the way Mike, the sludge has to be treated as it is laden with pathogenic organisms. It can't just "be put on the ground."

   Mike Russo Forgive my near-total ignorance on the subject. So, even after MBBR or whatever treatment system has processed the sewage, the residual sludge after processing is still not inert and safe?

   Dominick Profaci  The MBBR, or any activated sludge system's purpose is to remove contaminants from the water column. Some of these contaminants end up in the resultant sludges. These sludges must then be processed to destroy any disease causing pathogens. Hope this helps.

    Mike Russo Thanks so much, Nick for all the clarifications -- definitely a great help. It's Friday night so people might be socializing (or in Steve G.'s case, working), but maybe some folks will have other questions or comments on this same subject that they want to post on this thread. If so, I would greatly appreciate any further input and expertise you can share.

    Dominick Profaci  More than happy. Have a great weekend!

    Amy Dooley Mosbacher Thanks for this thread. It answers a lot of questions.

    Eric Schwartz  Wow. Way too much of a fact-based discussion in this thread...take it down a notch or two - feel free to wildly speculate on something. Thanks Mike, thanks Dominick.

    Steve Greenfield Thanks. We needed this.

    Hadley Taylor  agree. thanks so much for sharing your expertise.

    Terrence Quinn Just to make Eric crazy... Dominick is there an assumed/typical rate of production of the sulfides and mercapton... that is ... for every gallon of water into the plant, how much of the outputs can we expect. I know the actual value depends on whats in the individual waste stream, but what is assume when they do the sizing calculatin.

    Dominick Profaci Sorry Terry, there is no rule of thumb with hydrogen sulfide or any other odorant production from waste water. It is highly variable and dependent on the condition of the waste stream, waste water facility type and how it is operated, and environmental conditions (time of year and/or day, temps, barometric pressure, wind conditions, etc, etc). When I used to do odor studies, there was a ton of on-site analysis as well as "back in the office" odor identification (qualitative and quantitative), with a trained odor panel. I know, seems a bit much right? But, noxious odors that are produced in waste water treatment can be a major issue to the community that surrounds the facility; and unfortunately very difficult to impossible to mitigate. As an example, I spent nearly two years at the North River WWTP in NYC as an on-site process, operations, and odor control engineer trying to help them with odor mitigation - among other operational issues. This facility has one of the most advanced odor control systems available, but even today they still have regular odor complaints.

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